AR-15 Carbine Scope options

[Duallydog]

I have a DPMS .223 Carbine with a built in carry handle (I'm assuming A1 style?). I have a rail mount for the carry handle. I'm wondering what kind of scope would be most useful. I'm assuming most of it will be personal choice. I'm looking for a scope that will allow me to see the target between 50 and 100 yards.
I'm new to optics, would a 4X fixed scope be more than sufficient to see the center ring on a standard target out at 100? Would a 2-6 or 3-9 even be useful?

[Fronty Owner]

ACOG?

Fixed power passes more light than a variable power with the same objective lens size.
I think 3X-9X- is a minimum if your going to go variable.

[Duallydog]

OK, is a Carbine going to be anywhere close to accurate at 100 yards if I can see what I'm shooting?

[Fronty Owner]

I break clays routinely with mine.
btw, its got the lightweight barrel too...

[Soggybottomboy]

You'd be surprised how accurate that thing is at 100 yards. The AR platform is amazingly accurate/reliable. Though there are hundreds of different manufactures, the platform designed by Eugene Stoner is basically the same. This proven design is the one in use by the US military since the Vietnam era.
As far as optics go, 4x would be a gracious plenty at 100 yards. Try it without optics and I'll bet you're more accurate at 100 yards than you'd believe. As far as optics go, I can think of Aimpoint, Eotech, Trijicon, and Burris. I know I've left some out but they are the top players right now. Hope you enjoy that DPMS!

SBB

[Fronty Owner]

One thing I forgot to ask.

Is this a rail that mounts the optic directly on top of the carry hand, or infront of the carry handle to co-witness to the irons?
If it co-witnesses, you are going to be limited to a 1x optical red dot due to eye relief. If its on top, you can use any scope, but its going to be insanely high.

[Duallydog]

It'll be insanely high, the rail goes directly on top of the carry handle, that way I still have the iron sights.
And mentioning Stoner's design, it is a surprisingly simple operation, I figured the firing pin set up would have been more complicated, guess I shouldn't have if it can be torn down in less than 30 seconds.

[Fronty Owner]

After owning one, I was rather unimpressed by the mall ninja trick of field stripping an AR blind folded.
yea, they are simple rifles. A bit tight on tolerance and will get gummed up if overlubed in a dusty, dirty location.
When I bought mine, I bought a kit gun, the lower takes a bit to put together, but its not bad and once its together, you should only be taking it apart to replace worn parts. The bolt carrier group gets disassembled to clean each time.

back to topic, for your setup, I would advise a 4X fixed power scope. Better yet, replace your upper with a flat top and swap between a carry handle and an optic as you need.

First thing I would do is put a couple magazines of ammo on paper at 100 to 150 yrds with irons and see what you and the rifle are capable of doing.

[Duallydog]

So I'm probably as well off to get a spotting scope then. The whole reason I have it is because the original owner wanted a flat top, so he sold his old one to me and bought a flat top (A3 right?)

[Fronty Owner]

Quite a few people buy an AR thinking, Im gonna change this, and that, and make it exactly what I want at the moment only to realize as they start pricing what they want, its cheaper to buy another rifle (afterall the lower is only about $100 to $150).


A complete upper from M1S is $425 with detachable carry handle.
A stripped upper from M1S is $100.
A spotting scope is a good idea even with a rifle scope. I cant resolve a .22 caliber bullet hole in paper with a Leupold VX II scope at 9X at 100 yrds.

One thing you might try, pull a scope off one of your other rifles and mount it on your carry handle and see if its useable to you. I find the irons on my carry handle a tad high to really plant my cheek bone on the rifle stock.

[Duallydog]

That would be a good solution, but I don't have anything with a scope on it. I'm not used to optics, of the scoped rifles I've shot include a .204 CZ, Mini-14, and a Romanian copy of a Dragonov. Haven't put more than 15 rounds through any one of them.
My other 2 rifles both eject out the top (Winchester 94 30-30 and Rossi pump .22), so they are not all that feasible for a scope.

[Fronty Owner]

hmmm... put some rounds thru like it is.

You have been shooting buckhorns. wait till you get get used to peep sights. focusing thru that small hole actually helps you focus at a longer distance. buckhorns are fast to acquire, but dont force the focus like a peep will (like the old buffalo rifles)

[Duallydog]

When looking through the peep sight on the AR what is the usual sight picture? Right where the front sight frame starts bowing out do I try to keep the curve of the rear sight to semi match that bow? Or did I make no sense on that question?

[Fronty Owner]

I have mine adjusted so the top of the post is in the middle of the peep covering POI.
Some center the POI with the post just below (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Open_sight_pictures.png)

there is a writeup on Arfcom on the military method for sighting in.
My rifle has the national match appeture so its smaller (for daytime shooting), and the range adjustment is in MOA instead of meters.

ETA:
http://groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/improvedbattlesightzero.msnw 50m/200m IBZ
http://www.ar15.com/content/guides/sightIn/ standard 25m/300m zero

[Fronty Owner]

http://i25.tinypic.com/saw9ar.jpg

If you look hard enough, you will find a firearm in this picture that will give you an idea of how high your scope will be.

[Duallydog]

You mean the thing that is red and chrome just below her smile?
Now that is a Milwaukee power tool.
Same scope mount I have.

[Shovelhead]

Your dilema is the reason I went with a flat top reciever. :(

[Fronty Owner]

I went with a flat top with a removable carry handle too. I wanted irons most of the time, but I like being able to drop on a scope occationally.

[n2moto]

If you are going to mount a scope to the top of the carry handle then besure and get something for the stock to raise your cheek weld.

[Duallydog]

How bad would a cheek riser affect the use of the iron sights?

[Fronty Owner]

just guessing, I would say its going to be about like trying to look thru the barrel of a bolt gun instead of the scope.

[Duallydog]

Have to lay your head sideways to look down the sights. I guess if there wasn't a riser I could just put my chin on the stock. [laugh]

[Equalizer_2]

Check out the Burris Timberline scopes. They are relatively small and light which would fit your carbine. I should have one delivered tomorrow in the 2-7 model that I bought for my 6.8

It should have been here last week but with the closing of I-5 and all the passes combined with the unusual snow deliveries are running behind.

You will need to get rings to mount the scope to your mount and you need to get the rings that will allow the scope to clear the mount. Rings come in low, medium, high, and I believe extra high. You will probably need help to determine which rings you will need.

Good luck in your search, you will enjoy your DPMS as it is a quality tool and fun to play with.

[Soggybottomboy]

That's a good looking set up Shovel! You run yours like I run mine. - Wet!
I've got a Colt with a fixed carry handle so no optics for me..

SBB

[n2moto]

I don't have any idea how far apart you guys are but try www.triangleshootingsports.com.

[Duallydog]

Corpus Christi? I guess its kind of close, its exactly the same mileage as you going to Sacramento.

[mtl0727]

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j310/cspringsledesma/th_IMAG0042.jpg (http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j310/cspringsledesma/IMAG0042.jpg)

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j310/cspringsledesma/th_IMAG0043.jpg (http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j310/cspringsledesma/IMAG0043.jpg)

thats my set up it seems to work good for me....it doesnt mess w/ the factory peep sights im happy w it, as far as cheek weld is concerned it is a lil different w/ the scope mounted to the cary handle, but like anything else you get used to it.

[Duallydog]

Hmmm, a scope as long as the barrel does look surprisingly balanced.

[mtl0727]

it works pretty decent, that gun was thrown together, its a preban colt upper, the scope is a handme down scope but it does real good. The balance of the rifle is good, well i mean i can manage it.

[Duallydog]

If anyone is wondering I still haven't done anything with the rifle. Got too many other projects to be working on and I'm looking at acquiring a semi auto .22, some form of 1911 .45 and a CHL and thats not counting my truck projects.

[soulezoo]

While I am always a proponent of staying away from cheap scopes and know you get what you pay for, I picked up a cheap scope at the Gun show Saturday for $150 that is kinda neat for the features..

It is an NcStar mark III tactical, rubber armored, 3x9x42... compact, illuminated mil dot reticle (a cool blue color at that!) with built in compact laser on the side. It looks really nice on the top of my FN FAL! But would be just as useful on the AR too... it also comes in a 4x fixed too. Optics as one would expect will not fool you into believing it is a Zeiss, but not bad either.