Newbie wanting to get into hunting.. recommendations, please!

[Hohn]

So, I'm considering taking up hunting as a middle aged man-- probably not too common, but I think it would great for my kids to experience as they get older (they're both little right now).

** Already will take all the safety classes on the planet and such, so no need to mention that. I'm new to hunting, not to life**

Since I'd be interested in deer and elk primarily, I think settling upon a caliber is not too terribly hard (despite their being a myriad of options). Here are my initial thoughts.

Friends of mine in WY take elk all the time with a .270 WIN, so I'm confident that that is "enough gun" for elk, though maybe a little more demanding on the hunter (have to be more accurate, get closer, etc).

For deer, it seems .270 is the closest thing to an official caliber for a given species (with maybe .243 right behind).

So, it seems .270 is the unofficial starting point for a caliber. But my research shows that a 7mm Rem Mag is darn close to a .270-- a 7mm RM with a 140grain bullet is almost identical in trajectory and velocity to a .270 at 130 grains. Both calibers won't bleed you dry on factory ammo cost (I probably won't be able to handload).

So, 7mm RM seems like a a plus-sized .270, with almost all the same things to like. Both are right around 3000fps MV with standard loads, both will be around 2000fps at 500yds.

The newer 7mm versions that are out are intriguing. The RUM version and WSM are also very intriguing-- but do they have staying power?

I think the RUM at 7mm is a waste-- huge powder capability that you can never really utilize with a 7mm round. Take it up to 300 or 338 and it starts to make a lot more ballistic sense (though it's still ridiculously expensive to buy or handload). So while the ego part of me likes the idea of the RUM, it doesn't make any sense for what I'd want in a rifle. Even handloading, it would be very expensive to shoot.

The WSM is a neat idea also. But it seems to be an answer to a question no one was really asking. Does an extra 200fps really work some kind of magic that justifies all the extra cost in factory ammo? Realistically, that's what, maybe another 100 yards range at an equivalent velocity? Unlike the RUM, the WSM case makes a lot more sense at a smallish 7mm.

Anyway, is there are real reason to be looking hard at something in the .30 caliber class? I don't care for the 30-06 (classic, I know, but too antiquated for my liking). The new crop of 300s (WSM, RUM,, etc) are intriguing, but I just can't see a need for a 30 cal anything for what I'd want.

I'm not seeing the supposed advantages of a short mag in rifle weight either. Most rifle models list identical weights for 7mm RM, WSM, and RUM versions. Maybe for a custom gun, the shorter action makes a lot more sense, but for an off the shelf rifle?

Anyway, all that to say that unless someone can open my eyes to a huge reason to consider a .30 class caliber, I'll stick with .270 WIN or a 7mm RM, with the 7mm being the top choice thus far.



As for rifles, it seems there are lots of great rifles out there. The rem 700 and Winchester 70 seem like they are half the market between the two of them. But to me, the starting points in my search are Savage and Browning.

The Savage rifles to me seem ahead of the competition, if you get all the factory accuracy options (accustock, accutrigger, etc). While you don't get as many options for caliber, barrel length, etc etc with the Savage, it appears that what you DO get it one exceedingly capable rifle at a good price.

The Brownings look good to me, too. I've been a little biased since the A-bolt came out (read all the mags and was infatuated by the BOSS system). The newer X bolt appears to be a solid platform, but a lot more options available than a Savage. But I'd bet the Savage shoots no worse than any X bolt.

Anyway, I'd appreciate any and all comments from anyone so inclined. I've given this a lot of thought, but I'm sure there's a lot that I've missed or failed to consider.

Justin

[Fronty Owner]

I would start with a reloading manual or atleast a lot of research online and in your local gun shop.
make note of what calibers has the widest selection of brands and bullet weights.
consider these first. for muleys and elk, you're prolly looking at .300 win mag or something in that line. Its gonna recoil quite a bit, but your gonna have to take some punishment to take down a ton of elk.
as far as rifles. savage is a great rifle out of the box for the price. If you order from Savage, you can get just about any caliber in a 22 or 24" barrel with the accustock / accutrigger. They have a lower end rifle without those features. Remmys have issues. In general, they are great rifles, but if you get one with safety issues, about the only thing you can do is sell it off or spend more money to have it fixed. Winchesters are good.
One rifle you left off that deserves consideration, the Weatherby is a good rifle too. they are available in non-weatherby calibers, but that said, the .300 wby is worth a look.

[annabelle]

I like the .30 cal for North American game. I hunt everything with a .300 Weatherby, but I hand load it for specific game. I also have used .300 Win. Mag. very successfully. I have a very accurate .308 I sometimes use for deer. I don't think any thing less than a .300 Win. Mag. should be used for Elk or bigger game (have seen too many wounded animals). I like the Remington and pre 64 Winchester actions. I have been told the Ruger 77 and the Savage bolt actions are good also. Above all .....practice, practice and practice some more. You want a one shot kill.

[Fronty Owner]

for elk and muleys, I would agree with starting with the .300 wby or .300 win mag.
a 7mm would be marginal with the heaviest loads available and they kick about like a .300 win mag anyway.
Later, you can add a .270 or .308 to your collection for smaller big game.

[annabelle]

for elk and muleys, I would agree with starting with the .300 wby or .300 win mag.
a 7mm would be marginal with the heaviest loads available and they kick about like a .300 win mag anyway.
Later, you can add a .270 or .308 to your collection for smaller big game.

X2...............

[Fronty Owner]

the other thing. avoid exotic or unusual rounds.
If wal-mart or academy has a few flavors of a caliber, its probably common enough to consider.
there are hundreds of rounds on the market that are only marginally better than others at something. but the common rounds are the best compromise, plus they will be the most available and the best selection to find something your gun likes.

[annabelle]

I agree, wildcat rounds are for someone with a lot of backup rifles and who is into reloading. Also, don't buy cheap optics......mount a good scope. It can make the difference.

[Fronty Owner]

not just wild cats.
a 7mm wby is almost impossible to find (and only give you an extra 100 ft/s speed of a 7mm Rem Mag.
Locally, .300 WSSM is nearly impossible to find except in a few weights.
.45-70 is all over the place, but try finding .45-90
Im not saying to limit yourself to JUST a .300 win Mag, just do some research and consider how and where your going to hunt most of the time.
another local example. I have a 7mm Rem mag for the occation I hunt open areas, most of the time, a rifled slug thru my 12 gauge at 50 yrds is all I need. the deer here like the thick cover and you need something that acts like a bulldozer to get to them.

[Hohn]

Thanks for all the replies, fellas. I'm open to a .30 class rifle, but wasn't sure where really to start. Recoil doesn't bother me-- and as they say, you never feel the recoil shooting at a big one. It could get annoying at the range, though.

As far as readily available, my local Rural King (like a fleet farm kind of place) carries 30-06, .270, .308 and .300 Win Mag in a couple different loads. Any of these can take a deer (or an elk, for that matter), but obviously the big 300 gives you more options as far as range, cover, etc that less gun might not let you get away with.

Seems to me that the WSM may have some staying power in the long run, at least in .270wsm and .300wsm.

If I could have three rifles instead of just one, it would be easier. I'd go with a .223rem, a 300 Win Mag (or wsm) and a 338 Lapua or RUM. That would about cover all that has four legs.

JMO

[Fronty Owner]

Thanks for all the replies, fellas. I'm open to a .30 class rifle, but wasn't sure where really to start. Recoil doesn't bother me-- and as they say, you never feel the recoil shooting at a big one. It could get annoying at the range, though.

As far as readily available, my local Rural King (like a fleet farm kind of place) carries 30-06, .270, .308 and .300 Win Mag in a couple different loads. Any of these can take a deer (or an elk, for that matter), but obviously the big 300 gives you more options as far as range, cover, etc that less gun might not let you get away with.

Seems to me that the WSM may have some staying power in the long run, at least in .270wsm and .300wsm.

If I could have three rifles instead of just one, it would be easier. I'd go with a .223rem, a 300 Win Mag (or wsm) and a 338 Lapua or RUM. That would about cover all that has four legs.

JMO
A buddy of mine has a .270 and a .300 win mag. the .270 gets most of the work, but the.300 is his elk gun. He uses it on the Colorado elk hunts or the Canada Caribou trips.
A .338 Lapua is a nice round. If you need to reach out to 1000 yrds.
a .308 is capable, just remember your gonna have to let the marginal shots walk because you're not going to have the velocity and weight to hit hard.
Ive always leaned to the overkill side. A .30-30 has taken quite a few deer over the years tho.

[annabelle]

.270 is a fine round ,but is a deer round in my book. .300 WM is a min. ELK round in my book. Friend's father used .270 for Elk. Although,he was a former Texas State champ. at 600 yards.

[Fronty Owner]

most of the country deer. Im not sure about some of the big northern deer at long shots.

[annabelle]

I would get a good reloading book, or look up the calibers you are interested in over the internet. This will give you a good idea of bullet drop at various distances and bullet coefficients ( hitting power) for specific bullet weights and types. A .270 should be fine for you(for white tails and muleys), I would not recommend a " long shot" of over 300 meters until you get very talented as a marksman......remember.....a one shot kill is what you are after.

[Don M]

A 270 is just short of enough gun for Elk, IMO.

Even the 7mm mag is not enough for me. I shot an Elk in 1999 that took 3 rounds to knock down with a 7mm mag. All 3 in the lungs. He just stood there and finally rolled over after a few minutes. I had stopped shooting, thinking something was wrong with my rifle when he rolled over. When we arrived, he was hit all 3 times. The bullet was mostly blowing straight through him. Hornady Custom loads.

Since then I went to a larger caliber for Elk. 416 Remington, 30" tube, 300 grainers at nearly 3000 ft/sec. Or a 338 Edge, 30" tube, 300 grainers at nearly 2900. They now drop right there with a single well placed shot.

I had a guide/teacher that used a little 243 win. for Elk. He had to lung shoot and wait them out every time. No thanks. I hated leaving them until first light on evening hunts.

The new 300 RUM is a great factory gun with ballistics that are better than the 300 Weatherby (one of my favorite all time rounds ) I killed a great 4X5 Muley in 1999 with my 300 Weatherby. For the RUM you can buy factory reduced loads that perform like the 30-06 for deer. The RUM has 3 power factor loads from Remington. 30-06, 300 Win Mag and full on 300 RUM for Elk, Bear, etc.

The RUM cartridge has no belt like a Weatherby. Giving it an advantage in accuracy, in theory anyway. I still shoot my Weatherby past what many guys would with great accuracy. So who knows in real world.

My vote is a 300 RUM for all kinds of game. Just pick the load for the game and go.

[soulezoo]

Justin, lots of sound advice and opinions given, but I didn't read just what you were going to hunt in what areas/conditions? This makes all the difference in what you get.

Sure, the one gun does all is tough to do... and a .270 is close to that... but I would not be hunting elk in WY with one where shots can be long. You have to be close and shot placement critical for that. Sure, Jack O'Connor extolled the virtues of the .270 for decades. But it isn't even an inherently accurate round; but, accurate enough. It is not for some reason.

If you are hunting whitetail in dense woods, a .30-30 is enough gun. If you are looking at deer/varmint mix a .25-06 is an outstanding choice. (I still have publications insisting the ol' .25 was the best deer round) Going up you pass the 6.5, .270 and 7mm... remember that bullet selection is everything for the game you are hunting and all those will do the job. For long distance muleys and elk and bigger, I have a couple of .300 wbys and love them.

[MarineOne]

I'll chime in since I used to go hunting back east on my grandparents farm in PA.

The .270/7mm rifles are great for 300 yards shots on decent sized white tails with a good home load. You could also use them on elk, but you'd need to shorten the distance considerably ..... and if you've been elk hunting its difficult to get within 300 yards of most elk, especially those in the Pacific Northwest.

You really have to go big when it comes to elk, not only because of their size (1100 pounds or more for a healthy one) but because of the distances involved in bagging a smart animal. Elk spook much easier than white tails, and can smell you at much farther distances ...... they are truly a superb animal to hunt.



Kris